Gaming video - bigger is NOT better
I don't do this much, but this mini-rant (or whatever you choose to call it) has been brewing in my noggin for some time now, and while we're in the calm before the (Halo3) storm, I thought now would be a good time to discuss this.
Unlike many other video game website owners, I've not been around this stuff for eons. My time here is only about three years, so I'm still a newbie. That being said, even in the short time I've been lurking about the net checking out game-related 'stuff', I've noticed that the content for most gaming fansites has quickly gone to video. While thinking all of this through, I've realized (yes, I'm a bit slow) that almost everything we do here is video. We are a conduit for gaming videos, with a forum to explain what the heck all the videos are supposed to mean.
An entire little community has developed around this idea, with video hosting becoming as important (if not more) as nearly anything else related to what we (and other fansites) do. Many other thoughts come to mind along this line, but to keep the virtual train on the track, let me finally steer this thing home.
SizeNo, I'm not going to use the cliche here, but it would work nicely. When I released my first trick video, it was right around 50 MB (because I had not yet learned to edit out all the meaningless crap that surrounded a few minutes of interesting gameplay). When I searched around for hosting options (which at that time consisted of nice people willing to help out with some bandwidth), most of my 'calls' were returned with "Man, you really need to learn to edit your videos."
Finally, someone reluctantly offered to host the video (COERCE - remember them?), but the point was I heard from nearly everywhere that the thing was monstrous, and would eat bandwidth like an NFL lineman at a steak buffet.
These days...What's ironic about that whole episode is that by today's standards (just a few years later), that 50 MB size is quite average, and I think that's a problem. I've noticed that the sites that host many of our trick/gamplay videos have steadily increased their filesize allowance to keep up with the need, but it almost seems that when given a 50 or 100 MB limit, people seem to think they must use ALL of it.
In contrast to this new 'huge movie' trend, one of things I liked best about browsing through FrogBlast's website back when I first started searching for trick videos (
http://ducain.org/utfoo), was that his videos were very small, showing only the interesting gameplay, and were very quick to download, watch, and then move on.
Why am I saying all this? Partly because I've looked into helping more people distribute their trick vids (HIH providing more hosting help), and I've looked into the issue of HIH hosting or mirroring every video that makes our frontpage (which logically is the sane thing to do), and partly because I help run a site that eats, breathes, and sleeps video content. Considering those two things, I felt it was time to (hopefully) make some changes.
The solutionI really think we need to get back to the days of 10/12 MB trick videos. Keep in mind I'm talking about trick vids here. I could go on another rant about 'montages', with their endless minutes of strewn together gamplay clips that go on, and on, and... but ya, back on topic.
When we first started posting videos here, most trick vids consisted of a couple of minutes (often less than one minute) of footage showing exactly HOW something was accomplished, and WHAT was accomplished. For instance, for a blue beam tower launch, we might show 30-40 seconds of the setup, and then show the completed launch, with a few seconds of credits.
I've seen quite a few trick vids in the recent past whose CREDITS were longer than some of my own trick videos. I'm not kidding.
I think we need to dial it back. It used to be that when a video was released that DIDN'T work like the one I just described (perhaps it contained a bunch of trick clips put together), we called it a 'variety vid'. Those were fairly uncommon, and were bigger in size. These days almost every video we see here is like that. Don't get me wrong - variety vids are good, if edited nicely and kept short and to the point.
Wrapping this up, I think we'd see more interest in what we have to offer if someone didn't have to wade through minute after minute of uninteresting details that have noting to do with enhancing the point of our video. Add to this the fact that now people are having to wait MUCH longer to download videos, and you have a large number of people that simply glance over a title, see nothing really eye-catching, and think "Hm, not worth the download." It used to be that even if the trick wasn't that interesting, wasting 30 seconds downloading a small video wasn't that big of a deal.
Also remember that since there are no bandwith trees, and while you're at it, keep in mind that there are these things called 'hard-drives' that reside on webservers, which don't have unlimited capacity either. If our videos were smaller and better made, hosting would be easier to find (and keep), more people would be interested in our content, and more people would be willing to offer help with bandwidth.
I've got a few more paragraphs in me, but it's late, and this will probably kill the frontpage. :)
I'd love to hear your thoughts on the matter, and I think this is something we need to start focusing on.
Cheers. - Duke.
EDIT: A few guys have mentioned how video compression (or the lack of) plays a huge part in this problem, and amaroq sums it up well in his post further down in this thread.
http://highimpacthalo.org/forum/showpost.php?p=118035&postcount=44
Comments
I agree Duke, I am tired of hearing "The video is only 52megs, nothing bad". Well, it is bad for me. My speeds are poo. This rant was well put, and informing to the masses.
Thanks.
I couldn't have said it beter myself. Lets hope we get this all sorted out.
nicely put even though i have high speed cable it's still annoying to dowload a 50 meg vid for something that could be put into a minute
YAH DUKE!!!
now get off your soapbox and into bed:D
Later,
Darkninja90
Wow Ducain, I was thinking this (almost) exact same thing the other day when I made my "Things to change with myself" topic.
Why am I even relevant to this topic? Because when I looked back at my videos. I saw TONS of POINTLESS info. Then I remembered your post about my "Floating QZ SMG's" where you mentioned I had not cut out a VERY long period of pure crap from it. I then looked at what I had on the VHS tapes. Everything was quick, sweet, and kick-***.
So that got me thinking about my "In-the-works" re-makes of my old videos. Why not just to the darn good stuff, add in a TUT, then the credits displaying the music and video name. Simple.
Thank you for speaking up about this Ducain. I wouldn't know where I'd be without your wisdom and guts to speak out to a vast community.
Mythica 4eva!
>.>
KORHAL
Exactly. I don't get it when people say, "The credits are a bit long, but I wanted to keep the song playing." I just don't get it. It was a good rant. :)
I completely agree, lately I have been dealing with outragously slow download speeds, and I see videos that are upwards of 20 megs (and that's small) and I just think "It's not worth the half hour download." Even if it's something I really want to see, I just don't think waiting that long to see it is worth it. And I can't even watch things that are on a streaming site because my internet at home, so when they host large files on those kinds of sties, I get even more outraged because I can't watch it.
I made a video a little while ago (probably 3 months) and it was just a litle jump video on getting to the top of Warlock, and it consisted of one thing: me getting to the top, once. That's all it needed, no extremely credits, no tutorial, no multiple shots, just me getting up there. The file was about 3 megs. Why do we always have to have multpile shots on a simple little trick? "Oh look he got on out of Coag, oh wait, he's gunna do it again, oh no, again... >6 minutes later< and again..."
Alright, I guess I'm done with my mini-rant to agree with a rant. As I said before I agree completely with you Duke, as will most (maybe even DefyLogic *cough*Epidemic*cough*).
-AZN
I completely agree with you on this subject. There are hundreds of great tricks out there that I would love to do or simply see. But the filesizes are annoyingly large that I don't feel like waiting for 5 minutes to see multiple failures and hear a song I probably hate.
Hopefully, what you have said will show people what they are doing is annoying.
Otherwise, people will spend 3 hours to make a vid that takes too long to download for any sane person to watch, and the video will be overlooked, being a complete waste.
If you see my reply on the "Epidemic" thread, you will know my position on this matter. When it comes to videos, specifically tricking, I tend to be old school. A quick and dirty WMM title and credts is all that is needed, I just want to see the trick. People these days are making tricknig videos so elaborate and over the top, which is something that needs to be saved for the montages and machinima department.
I have to keep this brief unfortunately, for my time is limited at the moment.
-GXM
Well put. I agree with what you are saying, but lately I have been watching more tricking videos and sometimes it's good to have a video with nice music and editing, I'm not saying it is worth it to have that much of it, but some of it could make the videos more entertaining to watch. All of the editing has probably been the cause of this though. People want to make the best video they can so they add extra things they think will make thier videos better, not that they don't but, it isnt worth a 50mb file to download.
My thoughts, Griffzer.
Well put Duke, very well put.
Now, people may realize that they need to cut down on the size of their videos, but they may not know all the ways they can do it. Here are some methods:
1. Edit out any footage that isn't needed (as stated above).
2. Capture footage at a lower quality. Don't set it to the highest quality just because you want the video to "look nice". The way you can make the video look nice is by having a good trick to film.
3. If you convert your movie to .wmv format using Windows Movie Maker, you have an option to set what playback rate you want your movie at. To keep the file size down, make the playback rate 512 kbps. If it's a small file, it should be ok to use a rate of 1.5 mbps.
I hope those methods can help people cut down on file size.
Someone laughed at me when I told them that all I had for editing videos was Windows Movie Maker.
That's a sad statement on how much emphasis is put on editing. I hate it too, and not just because you said you hate it. I hate it. I have and I will.
i agree ducain. i was just about to PM a mod or somebody about the increasing sizes of videos.
i miss the old days like back in halo1 when trick videos were a good minute or less.
had 1 trick showed the set up then did it.
and no stupid "teaser" videos.
dont get me wrong they are cool but why waste bandwidth like that when your just going to show the whole thing in the upcoming video anyway.
i say that we all have to stop worrying about being epic and getting credit (lol FP PLZLPZLZLPZ) and just share everything that we have with each other. tricking will progress loads faster that way.
i also think that videos that are split up into sections so they can fit on mythica is kind of sneaking around the point of 50MB limit.
i dont mind crappy quality as long as it shows me how to perform the glitch.
You're so right about this. I still remeber FrogBlast and Ms. Man's 30 sec - 2 min videos. They were just short, sweet, and to the point. ( <3 cliches :D ) Iwould really like to see this happen, mainly because downloading 40mb videos with about 1 min of gameplay isnt really worth my time. It is extremely convenient to have the little 10mb files available, especially when it's just a short little trick.
*dreams of the day when he will be able to rant like Ducain :rolleyes:
Simple editing and needed clips and quick credits > lots of beatiful transitions, high mb videos.
Nice post too.
If you're concerned with file size, you might think about laying down a strict video encoding... um, thingy. The main reason most videos around here are so large, is that people don't know how to encode them and compress them properly. Everything around here is either .mov or .wmv. .avi's could be considered, encoded to DivX. But, I've heard that encoding to XviD is much better than DivX. If you encode to XviD, all people around here would need is the h.264 codec, and VLC player. Piece of cake.
I don't know much about it all, so it's kinda weird for me to mention it, but the guys over at speeddemosarchive.com in the Tech Support forum are nuts. They are the pros of encoding. There's one particular thread in "SDA Site News & Suggestions" that's all about improving the encoding of videos. Once again, nuts. If you wanted a pretty indepth description of anything you might need, that'd be the place to go. I read into it awhile ago, and what I gathered from it was: smaller file size, better quality.
I've noticed around here, that most videos take up 3.5/4 of my screen, and those are the LQ ones. So yeah, I think the main problem is encoding and compressing. If a guide was set up, things could go a lot smoother around here. As for "bigger is NOT better", I agree for the most part. Some parts in videos are completely useless, and not needed. But, with most tricks these days, they're right alongside other tricks just like it. For instance, that dude who used 5 nades to get himself up to the skybridge. If FrogBlast were in charge of that department, he would just show one launch, and it'd be done. But to make it more interesting, that dude included like, 4-5 launches or something. Which isn't bad at all, in fact, I welcome that sort of stuff. But if people are editing their vids too much, putting in way too much useless stuff, all it does is add to the file size.
Editing doesn't really matter anyways. Most videos today are edited like they want to be grand movie trailers. If you actually paused and thought about it for a moment, you'd realize that's the most ridiculous thing ever. As GXM said, and I agree with him 100%, all you need is a little intro in WMM, credits, done.
Thanks for speakin' up about this, Duke.
What inspired this post? Something must of thrown you into rant mode.
Sorry Duke, but I disagree. While the short and to the point style worked for the way HIH used to do things, now, we are looking for something else. Watching an old video, while the trick may blow your mind, you are kind of left sitting there afterwards. With nice titles, clear quality, and good AV sync, the video is just different. I'm willing to download a 212 MB file if it blew me away, besides just the tricks. If the music booms right when you launch, and the transitions add suspense to what will happen, all the better. This editing makes for a truly cinematic experience, and can be enjoyed by non-trickers as well. Although, I do believe there should be a bare-bones version for videos, so some of the people with slower connections can handle it. And people, think about it. If you spend 8 hours doing a trick, 4 hours editing it, and an hour uploading, I'm going to want to appreciate the full efforts of this person. I'm saying, alot of sweat goes into these, and as HIH changes, so must its content.
-Boon
I've never really made a short video (sorry guys) but back in the day (like the V1 forum, and pre 2005) I still was able to keep a 3 minute video under the limit on mythica (which was 8MB I believe) and I felt that there wasnt a lot of useless footage, my style for recording back then, was show how you got from point a to point b, get rid of screwups, pointless (like look I can jump and walk around the outside of the map) and then add a few random things (fast clips like less than 10 sec) of something funny that happened, and then pretty short credits (5-10 sec) and I always thought that was perfectly reasonable.
As this site as grown the standards for a good video have also grown. If you told someone your trick video was 8MB they would just laugh at you. Today we need great editing, music that pleases everyone, really long intro's n credits. And another thing I have a problem with in some video's is the lack of a tutorial, what good is a video if you are the only that can do it? This is a community is it not?
I've always been a fan of topics (posting trick vid's) that had two seperate video's one for the actual trick, and one showing a tutorial incase anyone would like to know how to do this (I wish i did this for my later vid's) Anyways I very much agree with Ducain, the only thing that would really need to change would be organization (people who made varities probably couldn't fit a 8 minute video in 8MB) so that there aren't 5000 new topics documenting 5000 new and old tricks, You're the admin, so it's up to you to figure that one out, if it will even be a real problem.
But the days of 8MB limit vid's is something I really miss. It gives a chance for everyone to make a name for themselves. (Like me back then :D)
Sorry I typed so much, but yeah, in short "I agree with you Duke"
-TNK
Now, Ducain I see your point of view from a web owner's perspective, and your perspective from being an old-school trickster, but what will happen to the quality of videos? I like being able to sit down and watch something that people worked on, and genuinly be entertained. People who make these videos with flashy editing are trying to entertain their audience. Your looking at this from one angle, the trickster angle. I've watched all of your videos, and they are tutorial style, and encourage others to go and try what you have done. Other people, like myself, don't want a tutorial type video. I want to see effort, and be entertained by the film. I don't look at a trick and say, "I want to do that", I say, "That's impessive!" I don't want to recreate something, I'd like to work hard on something else, something new, and document as if I worked hard on it, and then entertain the audience. I don't go and try every trick, jump, or glitch I see. In terms of size, technology is always changing, and by the time you can read the manual for your hard drive, one half the physical size and double the memory size will be out. People whould be allowed to work hard on a trick, and have the film meet the same status as the trick itself. You asked us to discuss this, and I merely disagree.
~*nOOb*~
True. I pretty much prefer WMM over the other editing programs, basically because it is easy to use and has what I need. If you've watched my tricking videos, you will see that the only program I've ever used has been with WMM, and I compress them, even sometimes if they do not need to be compressed.
I agree with GXM, I like the old-school style, where the plain old WMM titles/credits did just fine, and they didn't have the fancy editing. They were straight, simple, and too the point. It showed you what you wanted to see, without bringing out the climax with dramatic music and fancy editing. Save that stuff for the Machinima department.
So, if I'm editing a trick video, I will probably always use WMM. It's my preference, and the content is what really matters, not the editing. To me, fancy editing is needed when the content isn't all that great. It makes it look cooler.
I'm perfectly happy with keeping video sizes small and simple.
~X
I agree. I pretty much prefer WMM over the other editing programs, basically because it is easy to use and has what I need. If you've watched my tricking videos, you will see that the only program I've ever used has been with WMM, and I compress them, even sometimes if they do not need to be compressed.
I agree with GXM, I like the old-school style, where the plain old WMM titles/credits did just fine, and they didn't have the fancy editing. They were straight, simple, and too the point. It showed you what you wanted to see, without bringing out the climax with dramatic music and fancy editing. Save that stuff for the Machinima department.
So, if I'm editing a trick video, I will probably always use WMM. It's my preference, and the content is what really matters, not the editing. To me, fancy editing is needed when the content isn't all that great. It makes what isn't all that great look a lot cooler. Of course, that isn't always the case. Some videos have amazing content, and amazing editing. Just some videos, while the editing is great, lack content.
I'm perfectly happy with keeping videos small and simple.
~X
some ppl have 30 mb down may not think ur right but when u got 1/2 mb down it suks...but to respect what other ppl have put together and the fact that i must eat sleep and breathe on glitching i must watch the vids its like if i dont im missing something and whut sux the most is when ppls vids cant be downloaded like rapidshare...i agree and somewhat disagree with ur idea but no matter whut it was a good one thnx for makin me think
-WHITESMOKE
nOOb_3at3r says:
Now, Ducain I see your point of view from a web owner's perspective, and your perspective from being an old-school trickster, but what will happen to the quality of videos? I like being able to sit down and watch something that people worked on, and genuinly be entertained. People who make these videos with flashy editing are trying to entertain their audience. Your looking at this from one angle, the trickster angle. I've watched all of your videos, and they are tutorial style, and encourage others to go and try what you have done. Other people, like myself, don't want a tutorial type video. I want to see effort, and be entertained by the film. I don't look at a trick and say, "I want to do that", I say, "That's impessive!" I don't want to recreate something, I'd like to work hard on something else, something new, and document as if I worked hard on it, and then entertain the audience. I don't go and try every trick, jump, or glitch I see. In terms of size, technology is always changing, and by the time you can read the manual for your hard drive, one half the physical size and double the memory size will be out. People whould be allowed to work hard on a trick, and have the film meet the same status as the trick itself. You asked us to discuss this, and I merely disagree.
~*nOOb*~
I have to agree with n00b eater and Boon. Time are changing and you have to cope. When the pistol for halo 2 came out did we just stand there and go "who would use this crappy pistol now" no we found out that a SMG and a pistol work real well together. So I think we need to cut back a little but I still like quality and hard entertaining work. I hope we can get this settled. Good night and YaY I graduated 8th grade:D . Now onto High School.:(
:cool:
Keep It Mello :cool:
Ok heres my reply:
As you might know, I have a quite good and popular upload script myself (360 Uploads) and the size limit is 125mb.
Since many people from HIH come to my site, they see the file limit as god because its so damn big... and they use all of it.. I dont know why but last time I was something like movie-low.wmv (89mb) and movie-mid.wmv (122mb) and seriously that just has to stop so I do agree.
Ive been here on HIH since November 04 and always watched some random movie within 1 minute because it was only 1-15mb and it loaded fast.
Now theres no way to do that because the average filesize at mythica is something like 40mb and at my site its about 70mb.
It would be good if people calm down again and low quality IS low quality so it doesnt have to be perfect, you will still be able to see the clip or movie if its 15mb for a 3 minute movie.
My Upload Script has a Streaming System wich lets you stream your movie immediatly (just like mythica) but I only recommend it for low res movies.
I dont know what im saying anymore... all I want you guys to think about is going deeper with your filesize with low AND medium quality... I dont care about the hi res because my max filesize is enough and indeed Hi res is supposed to be Hi res...
Feel free to quote me..
Ha, this makes me reminisce a little...
Okay, I was gone for a little while (just a little while, maybe two or three months) from this site. When I left, most of the videos were around 12Mb's. When I got back, they were all 35 to 50Mb's! My first impression was that people suddenly got stupid. Y'know what? I WAS RIGHT!! haha.
Everyone was putting in stupid crap, and stretching everything to it's limits. Luckily, since then, my internet has sped up inexplicably, but it's still excruciating downloading half of these video's, and almost all of the time I'm left with a bland taste of sorts from video's that prove themselves worthless with over-the-top quality and little to no compression.
okay, right now, I have a few video's on my computer, here are some examples of what's there:
2:19 video, running at almost two Mbps, 26.8 Mb's
1:25 video, running at THREE Mbps, 25.3 Mb's
0:35 video, one Mbps, 6 Mb's (pretty good)
3:49 video, .5 Mbps, 13.4 Mb's (my best choice, it looks fine, and took a whole two minutes to download)
My opinion, .5 is GREAT for a good tricking video, you don't need anything fancy, it's only there to make a quick statement anyways.
I am going to have to keep this short as I am in England using a airport computer with 45 seconds left :o
So, hi duke and everyone else, anyway
all you are talking about is true, I remember when I first cam here, mythica limit was 5mb, and all the vids were short and edited with wmm, it was great, medium quality, short download etc...Now its 50mb the average size for a vid, and my mac can't handle all the downloads, as I can not view in the browser cuz it is sooo slow. Anyway, I really think all the vids should be short again, that would make me and my mac happy because I have at least 15 or more gigs of halo vids. It's a good point you are making here duke, and I am glad you have brought it up. I just hope some people listen. Anyway 10 seconds left, got to go guys byeee
Yeah 50 mb vids are just too big because I am too lazy to sit there and buffer! :D Any 10/12 mb vids are nice because they are usually a few minutes long and take no time to download.
Ducain says:
you have a large number of people that simply glance over a title, see nothing really eye-catching, and think "Hm, not worth the download."
so true...so so true....
{NL} Boonmaster says:
Sorry Duke, but I disagree. While the short and to the point style worked for the way HIH used to do things, now, we are looking for something else. Watching an old video, while the trick may blow your mind, you are kind of left sitting there afterwards. With nice titles, clear quality, and good AV sync, the video is just different. I'm willing to download a 212 MB file if it blew me away, besides just the tricks. If the music booms right when you launch, and the transitions add suspense to what will happen, all the better. This editing makes for a truly cinematic experience, and can be enjoyed by non-trickers as well. Although, I do believe there should be a bare-bones version for videos, so some of the people with slower connections can handle it. And people, think about it. If you spend 8 hours doing a trick, 4 hours editing it, and an hour uploading, I'm going to want to appreciate the full efforts of this person. I'm saying, alot of sweat goes into these, and as HIH changes, so must its content.
-Boon
You are of course entitled to your opinion, but I couldn't disagree more. Also, remember that I started out making these things. My videos aren't cinematic works of art, and weren't meant to be. They're designed to show off a trick. :)
You may be willing to download a 212 MB file, but the VAST majority of other people simply are not. However, a 12 MB file would be downloaded and watched by many more people because it's so much faster and easier to do.
I'm not willing to change HIH to fit the content. I'm hoping to change the content. We need to get back to doing what we do best. :)
Flipsider says:
Ok heres my reply:
As you might know, I have a quite good and popular upload script myself (360 Uploads) and the size limit is 125mb.
Since many people from HIH come to my site, they see the file limit as god because its so damn big... and they use all of it.. I dont know why but last time I was something like movie-low.wmv (89mb) and movie-mid.wmv (122mb) and seriously that just has to stop so I do agree.
Ive been here on HIH since November 04 and always watched some random movie within 1 minute because it was only 1-15mb and it loaded fast.
Now theres no way to do that because the average filesize at mythica is something like 40mb and at my site its about 70mb.
It would be good if people calm down again and low quality IS low quality so it doesnt have to be perfect, you will still be able to see the clip or movie if its 15mb for a 3 minute movie.
My Upload Script has a Streaming System wich lets you stream your movie immediatly (just like mythica) but I only recommend it for low res movies.
I dont know what im saying anymore... all I want you guys to think about is going deeper with your filesize with low AND medium quality... I dont care about the hi res because my max filesize is enough and indeed Hi res is supposed to be Hi res...
Feel free to quote me..
I think guys like you could do so much more good for the community if your bandwith wasn't constantly taxed by huge files. Many smaller files = better. :)
yah, those are always how mine used to be like, member duke, all i did was show one example of it, or what i did, i never showed how, i just explained in the post, mine were always small.
but yah, im thinking of doing something, me and korhal talk about it, which reminds me.
goes to do thing.
It seems like the community, as a whole, shuns people away from short videos. If a guy tries to post just a small video of a small trick he usually gets flamed. I think this is the reason for people over extending clips. Way back when I first started looking for halo 1 glitches and I found Ibonk. All the videos were, like you said Ducain, straight to the point. Even the verity videos showed just the essentials, and the credits were never very long. I personally don’t have anything wrong with people putting credits in their videos, to show who are in them, but it needs to scroll by fast. These are just my thoughts on it.
Thanks Ducain
Jay
EDIT BY DUKE: Maybe a little education is in order here. We could probably change they way folks react to smaller vids. :)
I would have to say small videos are nice for tricking. Also we have to help our brothers out with the dial up internet, by making small videos that are short, sweet, and to the point.
Hm, I agree with this as well Duke. I think if you are showing off one simple trick you don't need to make it 5 minutes long and add in "Titan VIII" style editing.
I do think people still need to be making variety videos. I don't mind waiting for a download if the video is worth it. You click "Download" and it takes 10 minutes to download, people freak out because wow, what a waste of time. While it's downloading you can do other things, it's not that big a of a deal.
But yes, I can agree with you on this one Duke.
~Maker
I think you have a point in general, but some times bigger is ok. If someome shows a way to much set up, or just wastes time like I have seen in many videos, thats one thing. But if the entire video contains good material, i dont care how long it is. Also, I think well edited, almost cinimatic builds can raise the quality of a vid, if done well (maybe this is because i like editing a lot). So I do see your point, but i do believe there are exceptions :)
Definitely. Im usually in jumping discussion these days, and i see alot of little superbounce vids. Ill go to the thread, and i go to myself, what the frik?
1:30 superbounce vid, 14 megs.
That is just frikin ridiculous. Because of this, i find myself only watching things that get good posts or are huge name things that are thought out with a creative first post. Everyone wants quality, and thats fine. But if i can see the jump, bounce, glitch, kill, whatever, i dont care if its a little fuzzy. People wanting hi res is understanble, but keep it proportional. Id like to see some of the little vids out there, im just not gonna wait 20 minutes for 1:30 film.
Another perfect example: In the jump challenge thread, there are two types of videos. Challenging a jump, shoot beginning, shoot end. Making a jump, a single jump, possibly 10 seconds of footage at max. I constantly download these, cause they are small and fun to try. Byut since when should a single jump, with credits of maybe two people, be 17.3 megs? This is not exaggeration. This is somewhat high, but even the majority of them are about 8 megs. One jump. 8 megs. Does no one else see the stupidity?
Finally, i got into Counter-Strike lately. I downloaded a vid of the grand finals by direction of my clan leader. This is two vids, 15 rounds, put together, id say about 50-55 minutes. The download was 32 megs, with perfect quality. Do you know why.
WINZIP & WINRAR people. They exist for a reason. Use 'em. Not to mention it makes things look more organized and professional.
Im done, not really ranting right now, but i might be back. :)
Sincerely
Mike590
The Streetlight is always on.
Ahhh, the good old days. I remember when it was like that Duke, and I can't wait until it is like that again. Let's just hope that it comes soon. *applauses Ducain for nicely put rant*
I am 50/50 on this whole thing. I think that videos should be entertaining, have great content, and be well edited. I don't want to sit through a minute video and have it be just, "ok set up, trick, done", I want to be entertained.
Sure back in the old school days that was acceptable but these days people want to be entertained.
Now for people like Ducain who want to stay old school, thats fine, I repect that, as should the rest of you. I really don't think we need all the senseless flaming that goes on around here, its called a community for a reason, its not called "ME AND ME ONLY!". So I say this, for people that want to make videos that are eloborate and entertaining, then do so. If you want to be like Ducain, and stay old school, then do so. Lets just all try to come together and respect one other and what we do here.
Now on the other half of the 50/50, I do think we need to find someway to make our videos a smaller size(this goes for those of us who have a trouble making our vids a smaller size and are the ones who do eloborate vids, such as myself). Atm, I don't think there is much we can do unless everyone gets DivX. My suggustion would be, try your hardest to shorten your intros a bit and your credits but still make your video entertaining.
I like this, but as far as varity videos and trick jumping video oo and montages, I don't beleive in this. But if it's one trick and showing how to do it, you don't need a 200 mb video you no?
Ironically the Ducain tribute Video was 55MB, even if it was in two parts :p
I agree though, there's no great need for high resolution in tricking Videos (excluding maybe on levels such as Library and QZ). If a Video is used, it should be used to bring a point across, not be used as the main part of the thread.
There are too many threads that simply have a Vid link in it and no explanation, maybe it's just us getting too lazy to type out an explanation, but the one thing that does bug me is when people post an enormous Vid and give no explanation beyond the Video title.
I'd also like to point out that all of these large Vids are filling up my drives, I've got about 70 GB of Vids on my Computer of which 50 are to do with Halo. I will burn all of it to CDs this Summer, but nontheless, I think I've made my point. :)
TheMaker420 says:
Hm, I agree with this as well Duke. I think if you are showing off one simple trick you don't need to make it 5 minutes long and add in "Titan VIII" style editing.
I do think people still need to be making variety videos. I don't mind waiting for a download if the video is worth it. You click "Download" and it takes 10 minutes to download, people freak out because wow, what a waste of time. While it's downloading you can do other things, it's not that big a of a deal.
But yes, I can agree with you on this one Duke.
~Maker
But then again Maker, you of all people know that editing is 1/2 of the movie. In terms of simple trick movies that display one trick at a time, and how to do it, I can agree with Ducain. However, that does not go to say that the artistic side of variety videos and machinima should be cut down to little or no editing because of technoloy. Your technology can be upgraded. Here in-lies an age-old conflict. Art (minds perception of beauty of beauty) and technology (representing cold-hard facts). It depends on the movie, and its needs to be recognized, that Halo movie making community has grown from simple trick videos on the net, to multi-million dollar contract deals with Microsoft (RvB). I'll update later as the discussion continues.
~*nOOb*~
CAN I GET AN AMEN????!!!
Ya. I don't make videos. I've only made one entitled; the fugliest montage evAr. But I have a real problem with the fact most montages have credit that exceed the original montage length. That goes for montages
For trick videos, I always kinda though frogblast's videos were spartan (this was looking around his site--alot of the vids are broken up, maybe thats why)(and no pun intended: hah, just noticed it). Personally, my favorite videos are the ones that POTS make,: they might be long--but they're packed with great footage. I think most people don't actually understand what he does, and so realize his awesomeness. But in the rush to have a trick claimed as your own, I'm sure most people just put out a vid quickly. One of the better things of frogblast might be the [lack of"> editing. I hate when people have gaudy colored "hog/banshee/out of map exploration/launch/glitch/NEWTRICKITS MINE" text in the beginning, and then their name, scrolling in the end, when you could just have a stationary screen or OMIGOSH, post your name in your goddamn topic.
Point being, I accept your rant Ducain. Hope to have you here for a long long time.
?eace
I think the bulk of the problem is that lots of folks simply don't know how to properly compress a video. If you have a Halo video which is greater than 5MB per minute of its length, you're doing something wrong -- and most of the time, even 5MB per minute is more than is really needed. You can get perfectly acceptable quality using almost any modern codec for 3MB per minute.
Some of the videos uploaded to mythica are stunning examples of inefficiency -- uncompressed AVIs, 15MB-per-minute clips, etc. There's just no reason for that kind of stuff, and it has no benefit for the person making the video -- fewer people will be able to watch it at all, and of those who are able to watch it, fewer of them actually will watch it.
Mythica has, in total, about 250 gigabytes worth of videos, and at peak usage it transfers a gigabyte of data every two minutes or so -- I'd be willing to bet that, if every video on mythica were properly compressed, each of those numbers would fall by half.
(The minute-long credits and minute-long intros bug me too, though -- there's no reason for either of those.)
Just to make a (hopefully final) comment on this.
1. Machinima is an entirely different creature, and we don't deal with videos like that here, so why mention it? I'm not sure I see the point a couple of you were trying to make.
2. Trick variety vids can certainly be done without being huge. They're going to be bigger than 10/12 megs obviously, but there's no need for the mammoth sizes we've been seeing. WAY back, I made a video called 'Jump' that was in essence a trick variety vid, with many clips put together, and I think it finally weighed in at something like 32-33 MB.
My whole point is to use some good uncommon sense here.
3. We don't deal in 'montages' here (though trick variety vids could possibly fall into this kind of video). When I use the term 'montage' I mean this strain of video that includes minute upon minute of (possibly well-done) edited video showing the l337 skills of someone in MP. Again, I'm not sure why you guys are mentioning these vidoes, since they've got little to do with what we do here.
There are many montages floating 'round the net that weigh in at 100,150, or even 200 MB, but I can truthfully say I've not downloaded one of them. I'm not saying some of them aren't amazing. I'm just saying that there's no MP gameplay so impressive that it's worth the time it would take me to d/l and watch a 200MB video. Period.
*************
Thanks for all the responses guys. This has been fun. I intended to start nudging people here at HIH in this direction. Once we get our trick review system back up, some of the reviewers will be more lenient than I am, but for my part, if I have to wait for 5-10 minutes to download ONE vid to check and see if it's FP quality, I'll probably pass it by, or leave it to another admin to check out.
*************
Cheers.
Well read all three pages and decided to weigh in.
Back in the day I made my variety videos showcasing all the tricks I had done because I was on dial-up and I COULD NOT take the time to upload each trick as a small vid. That said, even with my varieties being around 6 minutes each, I had to pack them tight with tricks (I didn't even have transitions, just cuts!) and compress the heck out of them. All of my videos are of "watchable" quality and are between 20 to 30 MB. Yet I've also been told the audio/video sync was good, and that it was enjoyable. I would take the time to make tut vids that did the same thing: I would group a giant bunch of tricks tuts into one tut and showcase many techniques at once, all because it would take me five hours to upload these movies on dial up.
Plus my computer would crash every time I tried to work with clips, so I had to be careful and couldn't use transitions at all. The longest thing I use that is "non-trick" is the KDproductions intro, and that's part of the clan req.
Now that I have a better computer and DSL, I still feel the need to function this way. Although I do have the desire to make vids of a little larger compression and thus a bit clearer, I have no problem with file sizes remaining well beneath fifty MB.
There's a fine line between trick documentation and trick entertainment. Tricking is entertainment for yourself and your audience, and the audience of today demands quite a bit. However, you can NOT make up for poor tricking with great editing. I've seen quite a few shoddy trick vids edited like crazy to make them look like a blockbuster. Contrarily I've seen some great trick vids edited like crazy, and it's a fun experience. But it's hard on bandwidth. Giving people multiple pipes to work with, multiple filesizes, helps a bit.
So as usual I advocate a slightly middle line here; do your tricks, let your tricks do the entertaining, but stick to the point. Then polish it up a bit, give it a bit of Hollywood gloss... but only to add to what you already have, not to cover-up the fat and stretch marks of pointless gameplay. Make it exciting, but keep it to the point. Pointless footage is never exciting. Even varieties (which will sadly always be my favourite due to their "crammed full" nature) can be streamlined and made smaller.
Entertain, but do so intelligently and directly. Use your Hollywood flair for good and not evil.
i agree that vids should be shorter if they only have a couple things in them. but if the vids are long and really good, then it shouldn't be much of a problem. I have no problems cuz my computer's fast, but I used to have a slow computer and get angry when downloading took forever and the vid ended up sucking!
Thanks for bringing this to the light.
JR~IN1L8
amaroq says:
I think the bulk of the problem is that lots of folks simply don't know how to properly compress a video. If you have a Halo video which is greater than 5MB per minute of its length, you're doing something wrong -- and most of the time, even 5MB per minute is more than is really needed. You can get perfectly acceptable quality using almost any modern codec for 3MB per minute.
To provide a tangible example for this, I picked a poorly-encoded video at random and re-encoded it in a more appropriate manner. (Apologies to whoever created this; I don't mean to pick on you.)
Here's the original video, which weighs in at
25.31MB:
http://useruploads.mythica.org/view.cgi?f=Crazy_Camera_HiRes.wmvHere's the recompressed version, which weighs in at
3.29MB:
http://useruploads.mythica.org/view.cgi?f=video_recompressed.wmvI watched the two videos side-by-side and had a hard time telling which was which. There's certainly not enough of a difference in quality to have an impact on the viewing of the video.
And the re-compressed video is 13% of the size of the original! All I did was lower the bitrate of the audio, reduce the framerate from 29.97fps to 15fps, and lower the video bitrate a little bit. Anyone can do that... but few folks do. The lowering of the framerate has the most noticeable effect, but even if you keep the framerate at its original 29.97fps, the video is only going to be a little over 6MB -- still a far cry from the original 25MB.
EDIT: Here's a version at the original framerate (as far as I can tell, it's indistinguishable from the original video) which weighs in at
7.01MB:
http://useruploads.mythica.org/view.cgi?f=video_recompressed2.wmvAll of this was done with Windows Media Encoder:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/forpros/encoder/default.mspx
AT LAST!!
i had actually given up watching videos. Sitting there waiting for a good 20mins to watch one movie was getting to much.
The old days and almost instant playback was great. One of the things that made this site great was how easy it was to view a trick.
Oh boy, oh boy! I get to use my spamming powers for good, by rammbeling now!:p
Well...here are my views...I guess.
I am a Campaign goer.... and that is about it. I have seen some videos that should have been cut down quite a bit, but I do not want to show the creator disrespect by not biting and downloading the video. So I watch them...and there is so much stuff that was unnessesary, I wished they had cut it to make it easier for thier fellow chaps to watch. Now... no offense to the "noobs" around the Campaign forum, but if they want to get thier 100% new trick of riding the pelican in Metropolis front paged... (This sort of stuff is old, so...) they should not show so much of the same thing. We have jam-packed stickys full of delcious videos, that...well, have proven the discovery old. If they could attempt to search the stickys (Maybe even v2, for extra credit. I still go there...) Then we would not use our time foolishly, by downloading such a large film. And the reason we are downloading the video, is because we are trying be curtious of the tricker presenting his/her work, and because they did not provide an explanation at all, or not a thorough enough one.
But, I do like to see some razzle-dazzel in films. (Sorry cha0s.) For example, Forevercha0s's editing is beautiful in my opinion. I love it. I am more than willing to wait the download time to watch the video, because it keeps me enterained. There hasn't been one Team Gnarly film that hasn't kocked me off my seat, and in my opinion, the download time is well worth it.
Also, I use a video camera for my films. I have made maybe only five videos in all my time here, only one being targeted at an audience, rather than an individual in need of assitance. That one video was my first variety video...which was pretty darn big. Near 21 minets in length. I am proud of my accomplishments featered in the video, but as I recall the content, I couldn't be more displeased with my editing. My opening credits were bearable... but I hate myself for the display for the closing credits. Just aweful. It was hard enough to watch at first, but that sure didn't help. So using my mistakes as an example, I too think videos could use some tighter editing, but keep it loose enough to keep your audience (As well as yourself) entertained.:)
Because I use a video camera, and hearing people requesting me to purchase a capture card, I am displeased with my quality. Because of this, I choose to download the high-rez version of videos 95% of the time, because I can envy the better quality.... And because I wish people to "deal with" my quality, I hoped a larger file size (I am not so computer oriented) and lack of compression would ease the quality and make its display more appealing to viewers. But as it is, my quality sucks so bad, I regret not compressing them, because it's not like it would make it that much worse; I will still get marked down in review for the quality display.
I know how to compress mind you, and I try to use it as often as I can. (I don't make many movies, so there hasn't exactly been a need for it yet.) And I think if people know how to compress, then they should, because it will help.:) But this stuff that Slnk and others are mentioning, I have no idea what they are talking about. pure Jibberish to me. I am just aware of compressing with WMM, and I believe I can do it with Adobe Premiere (I am relitivley new to the program). So people like myself are mental hadi-capped, because they lack the knowledge on the how-tos of compression. (I will further my effort in attempt to learn, before I release anything.)
So I am half and half...on all of the above.. I love to see some shinny goobers in films, but if it going to be used on a 15 second clip to expand this really old trick to a 60 second clip, then just don't. You will get flamed for it being old more than likely, and if this is attempted, you will just get hammered all the harder.:( (<3 most "noobs".) Also on compression, I like the high quality, but I am a fool for not seeing compression's benifits. Easier to view, which means more chance of feedback. So if compressed, your stunning film will be aided rather than anchored to feedback from those fortunate enough to have fast internet connections...only. But if you have to put up with crappy quality such as mine, the higher quality can be easier on the eyes. I mean, I (now) do not mind some fuzzy, but if it is clearer, then great!
So we can deal with, or enjoy a video, depending on what we are used to. So I partly have to disagree with Ducain, but also have to partly agree with him. I stated my views in disagreement above (I think....lol.) but as for the agreement, I think if everyone took the time to compress (And if lacking knowledge how to, make an attempt to learn.) thier films, it will benifit greatly to yourself, and to your audience.:D And as POTS stated, use your thirteen thirty-seven editing for good, not evil.
Boy I can ramble can't I?:o Just what I think, sorry if anything in unintelligable. I am blonde, go easy on me! *Runs away from Duke and fellow members weilding chuck norris robots*
I agree with you Duke, people should just do one of those things on the Simpsons where the credits fly by, but you can still see what it all says, if the credits have a lot of names in them anyways.
I admit, that when I make a video, I save it to my computer at 25mbps, but when I save it for upload, it compress it to only a couple of mbps. Usually 2.1mbps or less.
We have to remember that there are poor souls who have dial-up still. Not all of us can download at 300kbps. And those people with dial up have to use up their phone line to be online, and they don't want to miss phone calls while waiting to download something.
So, save the High Definition videos for your personal viewage. The upload limit for Mythica used to be 10mb, don't make it be that again.
I agree, most of the great videos that come now I can't watch because of the filesize
In summation, FrogBlast ftw!
I copletely agree with this. The main reason I haven't been watching videos as of late is because they are always so gosh darn big! I usually don't have the time to watch a 15 minute tricking video. I liked it so much better when video were 1-2 minutes long.
________
Extreme vaporizer
I think that it's not just the fact that it's people don't know how to compress it but the fact that people are yelled at so for the quality of the video versus compression. I've made many a video and everytime I've compressed it the quality drops. Too much has been stressed on the quality which forces some people to allow the bigger sizes so the quality isn't affected. It's really a double edge sword as you don't want your video to have bad quality and yet you know you need to compress it to make it so people will want to watch it. It's finding the balance is what video makers should do, instead of trying to please one group or the other.
i agree, but i think this only really applies to tutorials. as you know, i recently got a capture card, and im proud to say most of my tutorials are relatively small, but tell you everything.
the reason im not as avid as you are, ducain, is probably due to the fact that by the time i started making videos, i had already gotten DSL and was used to a much larger file size as reasonable (im sure some of you remember me on dialup)
now for a stroll down memory lane. i remember ducain's video about single player overload on the maw/banshee pickup/kickass checkpoint, and it was incredibly informative (it better have been, i was on dialup downloading 10 MB...NOT fun).
duke, i think this is a great point. i always loved your to-the-point style of videos. for example, in bounce vids, we don't need to see people walking from their crouch spot to their jump spot. any bounce works from any crouch spot. just show where to land. and these hour long intros where you introduce every tricker with a clip of that person doing a trick is so unnecessary. HIH is for finding tricks, sharing them with people, and explaining how it's done. it is not to show off your 1337ness. also, if the trick is easy enough to explain, write a text tut. if you need to make vid tut because words just won't do, make it separate and give people the option of downloading it or not. also, leave out the errors unless something really weird happens and you feel the need to share it. otherwise, we don't need to see people mess up 50 times. it accomplishes nothing. this is NOT high impact hollywood. we don't need HD quality with dolby 7.1 sound. it's almost like people are using tricking as an excuse to make a video. if video making is your hobby, that's really cool and all, but there's gotta be a better outlet than HIH. with halo 3 coming out, we should all get in the habit of keeping the filesize down because there's sure to be an explosion of vids as everyone tries to find the new tricks and glitches and get their name on them. that fact alone is gonna mean major bandwidth usage, we don't need huge files adding to the problem so now is a good time to get familiar with better compression and encoding methods so everything goes well when H3 finally does come.
I highly agree, I'm sick of not being able to watch movie because someone thinks they need to have the whole 50mb's and nothing less, if they're over 20mb's I usually skip them because I only download at 60kb/s so it's not worth my time and bandwidth. I think video's can still be good at <15mb's. Sure quality may not be fantastic but really, who owns an HD monitor?... does it really matter, you're just going to delete the video when you finish watching it.
And to the credits.... I admit "I LOVE TO SEE MY NAME IN CREDITS" but I don't need to see it for 5+ seconds I think credits should be less than 5% of the video. And the common "I had to put more in to finish the song..."
#1 It's not a music video
#2 It's not about the music
#3 Some people probably don't even like it...
#4 Extraneous footage is boring....
#5 They invented an idea call "fade out"
--- In conclusion, I can live with 10-15mb uploads.... montages.... go to 360 uploads.
-MrBlack08
Ducain says:
You are of course entitled to your opinion, but I couldn't disagree more. Also, remember that I started out making these things. My videos aren't cinematic works of art, and weren't meant to be. They're designed to show off a trick. :)
You may be willing to download a 212 MB file, but the VAST majority of other people simply are not. However, a 12 MB file would be downloaded and watched by many more people because it's so much faster and easier to do.
I'm not willing to change HIH to fit the content. I'm hoping to change the content. We need to get back to doing what we do best. :)
IM sorrry buddy, but i dont like this. Your highly corrrect on the fact that people should edit their tricks and leave out the pointless crap but the editing is what sets the mood. Like boon stated edting gives the vid a unique feel. Builds the supsence and really makes it more enjoyable. If it wasnt for that all vids would be the same. Just another low rez,choppy version of something that could be spectacular. The way i see it is like a restarant. People dont eat at the same ones for a reason. If the restarant is run down and makes sloppy meals no one wants to eat there but you get the food cheap. (Cheep food=small download). Now the restarant that is four stars and makes good meals and has great display is looked upon as alot better, but you pay a bigger price(big price=download). I know its kindove a bad analogy but im tired. The way i see it is just put a low rez and high rez version of your vid. The quick and to the point people watch the low rez, and the people that expect more watch the high. Im not sure how the whole bandwidth and hosting the works but if a site offers 50 mgs im going to take it and make it the best 50 mgs i can. Thats all i have to say.
Title of Noraa's Post: The Post that Noraa Made!!!
Written by: Noraa
Produced by: Noraa
Original Idea and Concept by: Noraa
Edited by: Noraa
In Association with: Supernostro
Noraa Productions Presents
The Post that Noraa Made!!!
I like what you have to say Ducain, all the credits that take forever and the crap that has nothing to do with tricks is lame and is a waste of time, I won't name any names, but a recent trailer for a glitching video comming out is a perfect example of this. I do however like the uniqueness that editing can give a video (good point DollarPwnCenter). Just putting in my 2 cents.
Thanks:
HIH
HBO
IBO
Bungie
Tacos => Sandwiches
Special Thanks:
Me
Supernostro
Ok my second post here cause i just want to emphasize a point. I said before people should try winzip and winrar. Here is a perfect example. This is a folder with two demos of about 33 megs each. Because of zipping it, and i dont think they could have done anything else considering its a demo not a video, the download size for both put together, a package of about 66 megs, is 7.8 megs. That is a massive difference. You cant watch them if yoiu dont have counter-strike, but they have in-game quality. No loss what-so-ever in timing, sound, video, everything is as it was during gameplay. 66 megs for 7.8 megs. That is very nice.
http://complexityclan.com/index.php?file=demosfull&ID=609If i am not allowed to post this here, not sure why i wouldnt be, feel free to remove it. I do not believe that exact link is copyright material.
Hope this helps prove something.
Sincerely
Mike590
The Streetlight is always on.
Exactly how much of this rant applies to machinima? I completely understand why one would be irked by 50mb trick videos that barely contain any rellevent and coherrent footage. But machinimas, if executed correctly, do tend to be a bit long. But then again, machinimas (the really good ones) are designed to captivate the viewer for long periods of time. Therefore, one wouldn't really care if a machinima file was huge, since that person would stay tuned all the way. So, in other words, do we have to start limiting the size of machinima files too?
EDIT BY DUKE: Lesson in life: don't be a jerk unless you have to.
Sorry Boon, not meaning to flame, but
I disagree.
{NL} Boonmaster says:
Sorry Duke, but I disagree. While the short and to the point style worked for the way HIH used to do things, now, we are looking for something else.
Umm... who's
we? Speak for yourself, please.
{NL} Boonmaster says:
Watching an old video, while the trick may blow your mind, you are kind of left sitting there afterwards. With nice titles, clear quality, and good AV sync, the video is just different.
Mmmm... I agree with you there, but does synchronising the music quadruple the video size?
{NL} Boonmaster says:
I'm willing to download a 212 MB file if it blew me away, besides just the tricks. If the music booms right when you launch, and the transitions add suspense to what will happen, all the better. This editing makes for a truly cinematic experience, and can be enjoyed by non-trickers as well.
When I watch a trick vid, I want to see the trick. If I wanted to see an HD rendition of Batman Begins, I'd get an HDTV.
{NL} Boonmaster says:
And people, think about it. If you spend 8 hours doing a trick, 4 hours editing it, and an hour uploading, I'm going to want to appreciate the full efforts of this person.
I appreciate the trick being done. If I watch Rampaging Soda's superbounce video, when I think about it later, I say to myself, 'WHOA, that was some rape air.' I
don't say, 'WHOA, was that music amazingly synchronised or what?! I wish I could be as good of a vid editor as him...' :s
Mike590 says:Ok my second post here cause i just want to emphasize a point. I said before people should try winzip and winrar. Here is a perfect example. This is a folder with two demos of about 33 megs each. Because of zipping it, and i dont think they could have done anything else considering its a demo not a video, the download size for both put together, a package of about 66 megs, is 7.8 megs. That is a massive difference. You cant watch them if yoiu dont have counter-strike, but they have in-game quality. No loss what-so-ever in timing, sound, video, everything is as it was during gameplay. 66 megs for 7.8 megs. That is very nice.
http://complexityclan.com/index.php?file=demosfull&ID=609If i am not allowed to post this here, not sure why i wouldnt be, feel free to remove it. I do not believe that exact link is copyright material.
Hope this helps prove something.
Sincerely
Mike590
The Streetlight is always on.
WinZip and WinRAR won't do anything for a properly compressed video -- the video is already compressed, so there's no more (or very little more) extraneous data to be removed from it. Lossy video compression is extremely efficient when used properly -- much more so than loss-less compression like used by WinRAR or WinZip, simply because with lossy video compression you don't need to maintain the original data.
If your video wasn't compressed or was compressed very poorly, using WinRAR or WinZip might help -- but it's certainly easier and more effective to just compress it correctly in the first place. You also have the added advantage of not needing to download and decompress an archive file before you can watch the video.
(It's also worth pointing out that, as far as I can tell, the file you posted is a pre-recorded game session, i.e. it's just a bunch of data that tells the Counter-Strike engine how to render a game replay in real-time -- it's not a video, so it's not really applicable to this discussion.)
DollarPwnCenter says:
IM sorrry buddy, but i dont like this. Your highly corrrect on the fact that people should edit their tricks and leave out the pointless crap but the editing is what sets the mood. Like boon stated edting gives the vid a unique feel. Builds the supsence and really makes it more enjoyable. If it wasnt for that all vids would be the same. Just another low rez,choppy version of something that could be spectacular. The way i see it is like a restarant. People dont eat at the same ones for a reason. If the restarant is run down and makes sloppy meals no one wants to eat there but you get the food cheap. (Cheep food=small download). Now the restarant that is four stars and makes good meals and has great display is looked upon as alot better, but you pay a bigger price(big price=download). I know its kindove a bad analogy but im tired. The way i see it is just put a low rez and high rez version of your vid. The quick and to the point people watch the low rez, and the people that expect more watch the high. Im not sure how the whole bandwidth and hosting the works but if a site offers 50 mgs im going to take it and make it the best 50 mgs i can. Thats all i have to say.
I never said anywhere that a vid shouldn't be nicely edited. As a matter of fact, I would expect them TO be nicely edited. However, 'edited' these days has come to mean that the vid is filled with a good bit of meaningless content JUST to show off editing skills, and to me, that's NOT editing at all. The entire point behind editing a video is to remove unecessary content. Why do you think movie makers shave whole scenes and many minutes of footage from their movies? Even though the footage may have been good, it wasn't necessary, and so it goes.
That is what editing is all about.
Lastly Dollar, I'm a little surprised by you to be honest. I've always felt that you contributed quality content, and so I don't see what you're uptight about here, unless I just happen to be someone with whom you can disagree. ??
Reading your last sentence, it sounds like you're admitting that if a site offers a 50MB upload, that you're going to fill that entire 50MB, even if you don't have the content to support the filesize?
I hope that's not what you're saying.
I think thenotsogoodtricker's little launching video released a bit ago is a good example of what a video should be. Very short intro, not any meaningless stuff like dead grunts or something like that, just a couple launches, and a few credits. And by a few, I mean music, tricker, helper(s). Not thanks to so-and-so's mom, or, uhh, yeah, you get the point.
For longer stuff, like, for instance, my humongous 18-minute halo PC variety video, the file-size was just too big. Each of the 5 segments was like 20 MB med-rez. Unfortunately I couldnt get it much smaller, because Fraps turns to absolute garbage after a certain point of compression. But knowing that I tried to keep anything "off-topic" out of it. And keep clips short.
But that said, dont fprget the editing. I'd have to kill you all when break out blue-screen text and old-skool WMM. WMM2 is Microsofts gift to mankind, and I forget who made adobe premere and all that, but use them, dont abuse them.
Thanks for mentioning my video gigalad :)
I agree with everyone who agrees with Duke, for trick videos at least, I just don't think it's necesary. It's the same with trick "trailers," you've shown tricks in your vid, therefore it isn't really a trailer, but a trick vid, don't get me wrong, they are good, but why not wait until the actual video is finished?
There's my little rant :)
Ducain says:
I never said anywhere that a vid shouldn't be nicely edited. As a matter of fact, I would expect them TO be nicely edited. However, 'edited' these days has come to mean that the vid is filled with a good bit of meaningless content JUST to show off editing skills, and to me, that's NOT editing at all. The entire point behind editing a video is to remove unecessary content. Why do you think movie makers shave whole scenes and many minutes of footage from their movies? Even though the footage may have been good, it wasn't necessary, and so it goes.
That is what editing is all about.
Lastly Dollar, I'm a little surprised by you to be honest. I've always felt that you contributed quality content, and so I don't see what you're uptight about here, unless I just happen to be someone with whom you can disagree. ??
Reading your last sentence, it sounds like you're admitting that if a site offers a 50MB upload, that you're going to fill that entire 50MB, even if you don't have the content to support the filesize?
I hope that's not what you're saying.
ohh god no. I would never increase my content or anything to make it use 50 mgs. What i was saying that if i had a 50 mg movie(after cutting, trimming and editing) I would use a site that supports 50mgs other than making the vid smaller to upload at a smaller site that supports25(Such as putfile). Youre right i kindove worded that wrong but i was tired. Also i guess i missunderstood the problem. I thought you were stating everyone should just make plain vids, No real edting just blaintantly showing the trick and thats it. Toss the Vegas editor and whip out the wmm. And your also right that increasing the vid to fit the editing is wrongs. But editng whats there i think is good. What i think is a good way to make a vid would be to make the whole vid without editing. That would assure you dont increase anythinbg to fit the size. Then edit the finished movie with enjoyful effects.
^^Exactly. Dont ignore editing, just make sure the editing isnt the only reason to spend an hour and half to put 150 MB's on your HD
...I can't say much other than supporting the fact that videos should be well edited but videos should not have the useless crap that Duke is berating right now. I say we just go with the big man here and realize that you can make a trick look good without adding filler.
Do you know what. Now that i think of it your absolutely right. Looking back on my old vids(Halo1) they were only 15 to 20 mbs or less. I thought they were the best thing ever. There was a huge lack of editing and the quality was poor but no one cared. They enjoyed the content just as much. Looking at my vids lately they are with the high rez reaching over 100mbs. I guess i just got so caught up in wanting to look good and have great display that i forgot how the good days before i was well known were like. Its hard for me to change it because ive fallen in love with montages and the machinima section that editing is a part of me now. I want everything to look nice and have great display. I bought a 130 dollar dazzle 150 captured card(still cant get it working) a while ago strickly for halo. I wanted my vids to look pretty, but pretty isnt what everyone cares about. Anyways you should get this point out by eather stting some rules on movie making. Nothing real extreme but stuff like there must be a low and high rez. Make sure to take out pointless crap. Have a limit on filesize unless you have an alternative source to upload to like your own website or a friends web site. That will keep from using up so much space on the free hosting places.